Startup Wrapup: Growing Movements

Samuel Retortillo, Simona Deaconescu and Tony Tran interviewed by Maria Palma Teixeira

Imagine this: in the north of Spain, in the region of La Rioja, known as “empty Spain”, a group of five people found the stage for the development of their Startup Forum project: the seventh edition of Margen Festival, organised by Samuel Retortillo. Sometimes we find new perspectives and solutions in the most unlikely places. The last time I spoke to Samuel, Nina Fadjiga and Simona Deaconescu, I sensed the group’s will to be part of a change in the dance ecosystem. Now that this edition of the festival has come to an end, I had the opportunity to speak to Samuel, Simona and, for the first time, Tony Tran. Due to the different time zones (Simona was in Mexico, Tony in Norway, Samuel in Spain and I am in Portugal), I thought how ironic it was that we were talking about very personal, face-to-face relationships and yet were talking via video conference. Nevertheless, I could easily feel the spirit of community they were striving for in the Growing Movements: Dance Reforestation project.

If there is anything we can capture as the essence of the conversations, it is that dealing with the unpredictable is where growth is found, that diversity (of both working group and audience) brings meaningful connections and ways of seeing and thinking about dance and art, and that solutions are most likely to be found in the peripheries rather than the urban centres. Ultimately, their goal is to bring people together and connect them, reflecting the essence of art.

In our first conversation, you talked about “working from practice to theory” instead of the other way around. What was the role of each of you, and how did you contribute to the horizontal structure you developed?

Simona Deaconescu: I think what we discussed in that conversation was applied. The Margen Festival, organised by Samuel, is highly collaborative, involving artists in its production and organisation. It’s more of a community sharing resources rather than having strict roles like producer, programmer, or artist. Everyone, including curators, contributed to tasks like setting up the space.

Our role was to assist where we could, working closely as a group. In this sense, I expected it to be a grassroots type of organisation. Towards the end, I particularly worked with Chilean artists, helping them implement their pieces in the space. Additionally, we organised discussions and exchanges within our Startup group, involving festival artists, curators, and representatives from Aerowaves, like Laura Kumin (founding member of Aerowaves, from Madrid) and Clàudia Brufau (Aerowaves’ Communications Manager).

Tony Tran: It is important to highlight that Sam’s Margen Festival is artist-driven and non-institutional. Without a formal team or structure, we all became part of the production team. Samuel has developed this festival over several years, creating a special community. Our role included getting to know the artists, understanding the evolving relationship between curators and artists, and organising discussions within our Startup group. I think it was important for each of us to get to know the artists because we also want to understand the future of curation and the role of the curator as well as one’s relationship with the artist.

Samuel Retortillo: This festival is about building together with the community, where everyone plays an equal part. Unlike institutional festivals with rigid roles, here you help, enjoy, and adapt on the spot. There’s no set structure – no theatres, no missions, no hotels – just the need to be flexible and reset your expectations about roles in a festival.

Our experience in organising festivals in the cities – Oslo, Bucharest… – with little to no support has prepared us for this. Our role here is to be fully present, ready to help, serve, and listen to others, focusing on the community and on our role towards the others.

Simona, Tony, Masako and Nina were at this edition of the Margen Festival for a specific purpose. How did this contribute to the dynamic of the festival itself?

Samuel: The group had an incredible energy, with everyone supporting each other. The whole community – artists, neighbours, and our organisation – was happy, despite the unpredictable challenges like rain.

What stood out for me was the group’s high level of honesty and critical insight, balanced with enjoyment. Working with Simona, Masa [Masako], Nina and Tony was easy because they were supportive and always ready to help. I think it was very important for me to be with a group of people who have the ability to be critical, but not the need to be critical. They can enjoy and at the same time keep an eye on everything. Despite differences, everyone was fully involved, and by the last day, we had found our rhythm. Being with them in La Rioja was a truly special moment for me.

REFACE by Les Idoles (Chandra Grangean and Lise Messina) was showcased both indoors and, for the first time, in an outdoor context. How did it go and how did the audience perceive it?

Simona: I enjoyed their performances at Margen more than at Aerowaves’ Spring Forward festival, partly due to the architecture of the spaces Samuel chose, which were like cultural centres in small towns. The tall walls and gallery-like atmosphere added an aesthetic that wasn’t present at Spring Forward, making the pieces more engaging and the audience really focused on the artists.

One performance took place on a hill overlooking a village, using natural light from the sunset as a dynamic element. This, combined with a diverse audience – children, dogs, elderly people, and artists from around the world – created a unique and immersive experience. I don’t even know if it’s possible to replicate it somewhere else. The festival’s setting feels specific and unique to La Rioja’s community.

Tony: I think the sunset in La Rioja is very romantic and the performance very meditative. This also shows how adaptable these pieces are to nature. The artists are quite young, and initially preferred artificial lighting for their piece. However, I was glad we challenged them to forego artificial lights, as it created a unique, magical effect.

Tony mentioned this was also an opportunity to consider the future of curation and the role of the curator. Is there any particular moment or idea from this encounter you want to highlight?

Tony: We had a very limited time – about an hour to an hour and a half – to explore curation and audience development. Nina and I worked with three artists, while Simona and Masako worked with other artists, from South America. This discussion was fruitful, revealing differences and similarities between European and South American contexts. We found it crucial to involve both artists and curators, like Laura [Kumin], in these discussions. To advance, we need to include perspectives from the field to effectively challenge and rethink curatorial roles and practices.

Samuel: It’s important to recognise that discussions about the future of art and community don’t only happen in institutional contexts. For me, it was powerful to see diverse groups – artists and curators – discuss ideas in a small town in the north of Spain, in the mountains, with the locals. This was the first time that this kind of dance performance had been seen in this region. It felt like creating new futures. The visual and symbolic value of this experience was very meaningful.

Simona: From our conversations, we discovered that certain issues seem consistent across different geographical areas. I think in the, let’s say, extended European area, artists do feel the demand to meet certain priorities that are highlighted by funding bodies. This also influences the selection process in festivals, and the way they produce work, whom they cast in their work, what kind of collaborations they have.

This is naturally a subjective point of view on how I perceived our discussion, but I believe artists often then shift towards a more strategic approach to production, focusing on how to communicate their ideas effectively rather than purely following their creative impulses. But does such thinking create a kind of uniformity? In our desire to set priorities, are we artificially creating trends?

That’s why I love this project, because as Samuel said we are honest when we discuss these issues, even if sometimes we might have different opinions. I think this is very healthy. Although our time was limited, these questions need more space and time for in-depth exploration with artists and other professionals.

Now that the 7th Margen Festival has come to an end, what are the learning points?

Samuel: I’m always surprised by the rediscovery of certain aspects. One key insight is the power of working as a group towards a common goal. It’s fulfilling to support others, especially in a less capitalist context where there’s more time and energy to share.

Another key point is the connection with the context. When artists align with their surroundings, something magical happens, and conflicts seem to dissolve. The relaxed, context-aware approach allows for genuine expression, even amidst imperfections like weather or venue conditions.

Finally, the power of feeling. The lack of rigid projections enhances the experience. Without strict expectations, artists and audiences can engage more spontaneously, which often leads to special moments. The freedom to improvise and play, rather than adhering to preconceived notions, fosters a more authentic interaction.

These elements – the power of the group, the context, and the spontaneity – are consistently surprising and enriching. They transform the experience into a meaningful, person-to-person connection, where the essence of the moment takes precedence over rigid structures.

Tony: Samuel highlighted the power of a group coming together for the arts, and I was deeply impressed by his festival. It made me reflect about the role of festivals in the dance ecosystem. Margen Festival serves as a valuable alternative to institutional festivals and showcases Samuel’s incredible versatility – managing everything from directing to marketing and securing additional funding for our travel. His ability to manage so much and still deliver such a meaningful event is truly inspiring. Additionally, while I faced a challenge with the language barrier, being the only one who didn’t speak Spanish, it was still a privilege to be part of the experience.

Simona: I feel we learned a lot in a short time. I was particularly intrigued by how the audience engages with the festival, especially through unique rituals like setting up and taking down their own chairs. These practices, which are deeply embedded in the small community, create a sense of belonging and familiarity. I shared with Samuel and with the team that if I had the chance to do it again, I’d pay more attention to how these rituals were established and the community role in the festival’s production.

Another learning point was the challenge of translating practice into theory within our Startup Forum group. Creating a shared discourse or common language from our discoveries isn’t straightforward, especially as things often don’t turn out as expected. Navigating these changes and deciding how personally or objectively we present our findings is an ongoing process.

A little provocation to Simona. You mentioned in our first conversation that one of the main challenges was making the project clear to the Startup Forum and Aerowaves team. Do you think it is clearer for everyone now?

Simona: Definitely. I believe it was crucial that Clàudia was present because these experiences are so practice-based, specific, and unique to a certain context – they’re difficult to convey through words alone. Both Clàudia and Laura actively participated in the events and discussions. It’s vital for organisations to engage with these events personally, experiencing them fully to truly understand their significance.

Samuel: It was unique to have so many influential figures in one small town, discussing new curatorial and programming approaches, like Eduardo Bonito from Big Pulse Dance Alliance, Natacha Melo from Tanzmesse, and Elena Diaz from Acción Cultural Española.

It’s crucial to understand that if you want to train new curators, you need to engage with the realities on the ground. It’s not enough to stay within the confines of a theatre or traditional settings. As Simona shared, it’s like training as a dancer – you need to practise in different contexts to really grow. Our time at the festival was like a necessary training, pushing us to adapt and respond in real time, which is invaluable for anyone looking to create new narratives in the arts.

Tony: I’d like to add that it’s remarkable that the five of us managed to come together. Reflecting on the purpose of the Startup Forum, it’s fascinating that we, all coming from non-institutional positions, were able to gather under the guidance of people from more established institutions, within the framework of Aerowaves. The collective project was in many ways a response to the way other Startup projects had been designed and supported. Those projects were submitted on an individual basis, which can result in an element of competition that we wanted to avoid. The fact that our project was selected and supported, and that we managed to come together for a full week, was an achievement in itself. It allowed us to challenge the idea of curatorial authority – the notion of a single person holding all the power. This collective project [Growing Movements] might have been difficult for some to understand, but it underscores the need to be open to new ideas and approaches. It’s about finding ways to do things differently and ensuring that the future of curating evolves with fresh perspectives.